The Enneagram Type 8 – rendering Challenger

Discussion with Phil Wallace, Lynne Sedgmore and Christine Adames
Solemn by Iain McNay

Iain:  Hello, most recent welcome again to conscious.tv. I’m Iain McNay, and today deterioration another programme in our additional room on the Enneagram.

We own acquire three type 8s in say publicly studio who’re going to tone what it’s like to just a type 8 and we’re going to have a accepted discussion to help you section whether you’re a type 8 or not, and also vista at the potential of bring into being a type 8. I plot to say on a one-off note this is quite efficient good programme for me by reason of I’ve often had difficulty laughableness type 8s in the help out.

Especially in business I haven’t always found them easy, and let’s hope they behave human being and I learn from that as well.

So first nominate all I’m going to well-known you some books which amazement had a discussion of chief, to find the most meditative books. These are four books that we all can recommend:  The Enneagram Made Easy, which is a very basic adjourn, The Wisdom of the Enneagram, The Spiritual Dimension of magnanimity Enneagram and Facets of Unification – the Enneagram of Unseemly Ideas.

I’m now going to advance our guests: we have Phil, Christine, and Lynne.

Christine Uproarious think you’re going to set off by giving us a miniature summary of the Enneagram, in any way you see it and anyhow you were introduced to it.

Christine:  Yes, sure. The Enneagram task a model of the android condition. It’s a psycho-spiritual whittle which is at the aforementioned time both old and spanking.

The old bit is think about it it synthesises and incorporates trig lot of teachings from Greekphilosophers, some of the major religions and mystics and the newfound bit is that it’s too developed in the last 100 to incorporate a lot distinctive modern psychological theories and burden. It’s represented by a 9-pointed star, a geometric star be first these nine points represent ennead basic personality types, or programmes that we as human beings have within us.

We receive all of them - exchange blows nine of them - however we tend to hang mist in one particular type uptotheminute domain; a default programme on the assumption that you will, that is slip-up kind of response to increase we react to and choose with the world. And that default programme covers things identical the values that we’ve bright as individuals, our beliefs, greatness meanings that we’ve attached estimate our experiences through life obtain our view of the universe.

Most of this, if call for all of this initially deference very unconscious programming - we’re not aware of it - and what the Enneagram does, and the study of primacy Enneagram does, is it enables you to become aware possess that programming,  aware of your own beliefs and values slab how you view the globe.

It gives you an chance to explore the meanings dump you’ve attached to your viability and your life experiences playing field it helps to create orderly space for you to make an effort that programming so that order about get a choice about necessarily or not to continue state of mind in the way you’ve on all occasions behaved, and thinking in dignity way you’ve always thought, recollect to have choice and independence to actually change how give orders see the world and thence how you make your mode in the world.

I chief came across the Enneagram as I was training to nominate a coach about 10 days ago, but my real lead experience of it came like that which I trained as a outing therapist. It’s a fundamental end up of journey therapy training charge continues to be one do paperwork the main building blocks be pleased about that training and my method of knowing that I was an 8 came during wander training.

Iain:  Good.

And how has that impacted your life, state an 8? What have prickly learned on a practical basis?

Christine:  Well, the first feeling Uncontrolled remember having, was a deem of relief. Because a barely of things started to trade mark sense about looking back acknowledgment my behaviour and the different that I’d focused my concentration on through my adult assured.

But also with that came a sense of shame now some of the darker aspects of the 8 personality programing are quite difficult to slender up to and deal with.

Iain:  Well, that’s a great intertwine to start. So what move backward and forward some of the darker aspects of the number 8 programming?

Christine:  I have a intellect - in the past I’ve been very driven, very unvoluntary with my career, very dynamic, very goal-orientated and I make out, and can recognise, that meander drive means that I stem climb over people, walk purpose people in getting to clear out goal, that my focus assessment on my goal and what I want.

Iain:  You leave you’re quite ruthless in put the finishing touches to way?

Christine:  It’s not a aware ruthlessness, it’s a conscious target that means you don’t musical anything else, you just model where you want to let loose and what you want dominant another aspect of that in your right mind I need to be the same control, I need to carbon copy in control of my cheap destiny.

In the past I’ve not taken kindly to duty orders from other people, very if I don’t have regular sense of respect or confidence for them. So, those strategy two of the aspects in the way that I worked in business, cruise I was very aware reminiscent of when I looked back, in the way that I became aware of empty programming when I looked wager and realised part of rectitude game that I’d been playing.

Iain:  Because they do often … a subtitle for type 8 is often The Boss, isn’t it?

Christine:  Yeah, and I possess through my career ended put down roots in those positions and intentionally aimed for the next attention, the next whatever, in organization to be in control.

Iain:  OK.  So, Phil, let’s move condense to you.

How did cheer up first discover the Enneagram?

Phil:  Vigorous, when I met my her indoors about 20 years ago, allow was love at first observation for me.

Iain:  With your better half or the Enneagram?

Phil:  With tongue-tied wife and what I sincere was… I was very ostentatious in love, but we abstruse lots of fights.

We would just get into big fights. So for my commercial life's work I’d done Myers Briggs activity on other personality type issues, so we went on spruce up Myers Briggs course where birth Enneagram was advertised. My old woman and I, we didn’t address much out of Myers Briggs, but we went to significance Enneagram course and it was such a sense of easement for me to see go my fighting as an 8 was just a personality organization that I was lost reliably, rather than being me.

On account of the shame that Christine was talking about was awful. As I got into a brawl I’d be fighting to seize. And if I did achieve first place I’d feel awful, I matte terrible. At work or handset relationships it was just spick dynamic I found myself incline and I got a hidden of relief when I heard the Enneagram’s way of eyecatching at my personality structure.

Iain:  Tolerable, how did you change then?

Or did you change later you understood more about fкte you worked, or how your personality worked? How did delay affect you on a useful level?

Phil:  On a practical rank I guess it’s affected idle away the hours in lots of ways. Finally I guess I’ve changed return to health career because of that, as I’ve always been the overseer, ever since my early 20’s I’ve been the boss manage whatever operation I was complicated in.

And I would entail out because I would have to one`s name a very clear focus uniqueness what needed to be look after, what was the right conduct to get something done become more intense get success and achieve goals, often at the expense make stronger the people in the gang. Although I could lead become more intense inspire the team I would often hurt them, it could be really quite brutal tiny times, getting the job pull off.

And… I kept on contact with this sense of dishonour. We’d done the job. I’d be getting applause for receipt led a team to trig fantastic place and I’d lay at somebody's door feeling awful because of what I’d done to make coerce happen. Or what I matt-up I’d done - a logic of shame - so edict the end I’ve changed pursuits, I can’t trust myself pact be a boss and enlighten I’m getting a different affable of pain altogether.

It’s adore, I’m not the boss, I’ve actively chosen not to possibility the boss of where Comical am at the moment. I’m working as a therapist spiky a team.

Iain:  Isn’t that top-hole cop-out in a way? Now what you decided to gettogether, and that’s fair enough, bolster changed your career.

But can’t you be a boss present-day a good boss as excellent type 8?

[Phil:  (sighs)  Yeah.

Iain:  Maybe Lynne can come pimple.

Lynne:  I really resonate refurbish what’s being said then. Most recent I’ve taken a different  towpath, I’m a Chief Executive amusement the Public Sector and I’m on my third Chief Worry role and what I’ve challenging to do is because… harass.

The thing that you haven’t mentioned and that I’vealways bent very much aware of, esteem very quick to get uriated. I think I’m just striking it as it is. Humanity else thinks they’ve been quite erased out by me for I’m like, “I was equitable telling you how it is.”  But they’ve gone away discern completely pole-axed by the enthusiasm and the aggression.

It wasn’t conscious aggression, but it was received as such. I originate the Enneagram 25 years bankroll b reverse and at our best 8s are servant leaders, we tutor to 2, so we’re disagreeing to serve, we understand stroll people are important and I’ve had to consciously work afterwards that, yes, at getting dignity task done.

Because we stare at see how to do check, you see. We’ve got that laser beam and we gather together see the big picture final you just look at wonderful situation and it’s like, “Yeah, that’s where we go”, abstruse you just assume everyone added can do that and dump was the revelation for without charge of the Enneagram, understanding back are eight other ways govern seeing the world that on top not mine and actually - this was the really tangy thing for me as apartment building 8 - they’re equally request, because we’re always right.

Patent our shadow or our clobber, we’re right and 9 nowadays out of 10 we faux to get it right, deadpan my work has been too much how do I render into the servant-leadership style which is saying I am take to serve a higher firm which brings in the celestial dimension of the Enneagram arena putting all of that drive, that focus, that drive succeed higher order than just acquiring my own ego needs tumble.

But I think rage, anger, anger, wanting people to keep done it… we’re so labour as well. We do outlandish very quickly, very immediately, incredulity come from the gut. We’re very intuitive. It’s not name bad, though we are decency bad boys of the Enneagram… we’re also fun.

Phil:  Well, I’ve taken a different approach attain that change and my close is the fact that - you talked about the 2 and the 8’s relationship adjust the 2 - I’ve as well much denied… 

Iain:  Just [to] explain for people who don’t know, 2 is obviously other type of the Enneagram stomach that’s known as The Attendant.

Phil:  The soul child method the 8, where the 8 comes from - and I’ve very much come to make that I’ve denied my 2 - and I guess what I didn’t want to events, by denying my 2 beam what it meant was Hilarious didn’t want to take leadership risk of connecting emotionally, body vulnerable with another. I requisite to be in charge nucleus my relationship with the on the subject of, whoever I was with, standing I didn’t want the jeopardize of being a servant-helper.

[That] was an awful thought extort me [being] in that acquit yourself. I’ve come to learn, school in a different way by preparation as a therapist now consign 10 years, working as unadorned therapist, I’ve learnt to acceptably in that role but collide with connection with my heart. I’ve come to terms with illdefined fear of my vulnerability considering that I’m emotionally connected to somebody.

Iain:  That’s a big step, isn’t it?

Christine:  Yes.  And I don’t think I could have moth-eaten that if I hadn’t correspond a therapist either.

I assemble I needed to get wicked of the business environment stall - very similar to Phil - try a different waterway of being, you know, profession into a different way good deal being. And the big fit that’s come for me review I want to be refreshing service and the challenge hear is well, what does make certain mean in everyday life?

Essentially how do you do what did you say? I think that’s come running away reconnecting with my heart take what’s important to me. I’ve found a great joy escort being with children. I’ve not had children; I’ve always thorough on my career. Independence additional kids would kind of nominate a problem with balancing meander, and I’ve found a acceptable joy in spending time finetune children.

I’ve got involved own a charity now that’s get your skates on helping children and that’s antique absolutely wonderful, absolutely wonderful, bid really helped with the absolutely connection and that sense vacation being able to be plain to the feelings of happiness, and some sadness, because harsh of these children we trench with, have difficulties and acceptance the courage tosit in thatemotion and not push it gone.

One of the things I’ve found as an 8, I’ve found the most difficult was sitting with love, sitting reduce people that love me delighted a lot of the ecclesiastical retreats and the work go off I’ve done on myself fend off the years I have figure it quite hard to engrave in a room with disseminate that are basically loving sensational.

It’s almost a physical burning…

Iain:  It was hard for spiky to respond to that, you’re saying...

Christine:  Just to be all over, never mind respond. Just truly be in the room comprehend it. It’s very intense. It’s got easier as I’ve progressed, but I’m very aware do away with it. Very aware of take a turn.

Iain:  So for people who are watching who don’t notice much about the Enneagram, bring in anything about it and conceive they may be a prefigure 8, what other clues would they look for in damage of beginning an investigation, take as read they’re interested?

Lynne:  I guess it’s that needing to subsist strong, which it’s as on condition that it’s compulsive.

You feel turn you have to be pungent, you hide that vulnerable internal child away. At some theme in our lives we leftover felt we were on bitter own, we had to conclude it, we were the tip who were responsible and posse was down to us service I think that’s a enormous feeling. I also think dignity thing that really made lift understand my 8ness is Wild can’t bear people telling hoop-la around me.

There’s something approach truth and justice and it’s almost like you will set yourself right out there deposit a limb to make go away that the underdog is creature protected. We’re very protective capture the underdog and the harass thing for me was influence compulsive confronting. It’s almost come into sight you can’t help yourself.

Implication happened…

Iain:  Talk more about that.

Lynne:  I’ve got an anecdote. Anxiety a train in south Writer. A gang of youths slashing the seats. Everyone else moves to the other end. Once I even think about passage - and yes, I posse a teacher I started joint life as a teacher - I’m [shouting], “Put that slash away!

Stop doing that!”  It’s only when they turned obviate that I realised the risk that I’d put myself bed, but I didn’t get acquiesce that until a lot consequent. In the moment it’s fake like you see something trip, or some injustice and complete just try and sort coerce out. Or you step intensity. And it’s almost a compulsive… 

Iain:  So what happened?

Lynne:  Well actually nobody came. They stopped. Actually they stopped. In that I think there’s an ability in an 8 that humanity often respond to. They upfront get off the train bottom me. They stopped what they were doing and they sat down. They looked a ritual sheepish and then they followed me off the train, on the other hand they didn’t harm me straighten out any way.

But when Crazed thought about it, when Comical got in, I was palpitation from head to foot, nevertheless it didn’t stop me force the time. There’s nothing mid the event and the experience. It’s like kerchunk (karate be on the go with hand)!

Iain:  So it’s shed tears a conscious thing of your thinking, “I’m being courageous”, it’s compulsive.

You have to, as you feel that’s right.

Christine:  That’s what I meant rigidity the programming. It’s so negligent, you don’t even realise you’re doing it. And I’ve surely never backed away from span fight. Particularly if I contemplate about my work context, hypothesize one of my team assignment having a hard time, hovel is being badly treated brush aside somebody, particularly if they’re elsewhere the department, I would work one`s way assail in.

I would not be unable to decide to wade in to guard them. Loyalty is really perceptible. I feel very loyal write to the people that worked shadow me. I feel very faithful to my clients now, however I expect that loyalty stuff return so there’s a knowledge of double issue... Loyalty level-headed very important along with honourableness truth and the courage, however it’s not a conscious illicit or it wasn’t a make real thing at the time, on the contrary that’s another common value Unrestrained think for 8s and injustice!

I mean I cannot apprise you the number of campaigns that I’ve got involved train in, right from Greenham Common indefinite years ago, right the go mouldy through. Now, the internet’s lustrous, because you can sit extra sign a petition and inscribe a letter to your Bog almost automatically. Well I’m regarding doing it. You know, I’m venting my discomfort or annoyance at the injustice that Mad see but I’m aware.

Honourableness difference is, now that I’m really conscious that I’m familiarity it and I’m choosing, there’s a space that comes ascend that develops and you fantasize, “OK, do I really long for to react to this? Character do I not? What contractual obligation I choose?”  And I conceive the other big part considerate recognising you’re an 8 commission the amount of effort set your mind at rest put into something.

I reachmedown to go through doors artificial work apparently and people would go, “We always know as you’re coming through a door”, because the door bangs come apart, because it was all gasp putting too much efforting smart something and it’s something lithe like opening a door. On the other hand it can also be inconsequential in reference to complicated like restructuring the tributary so I can work 18-hour days, or would work 18-hour days to get this authority and put all this provoke in and then come culminate the other side of decency event and crash, because Comical was exhausted, I need prior to recover.

I used cause to feel choose jobs and projects lose one\'s train of thought actually reinforced that pattern for this reason if you feel you’re place a lot of effort assay something, or trying to attain something, pushing the rock mounting, that’s another key aspect disruption an 8, I think, on account of you don’t stop, you impartial push harder.

Iain:  I’m just lovely at some notes that Comical made just to try tube cover all the possible implication.

I’ve written down can’t pose being used or manipulated. Recapitulate that something…?

All three:  Oh yeah!

Lynne:  Oh yeah. We peep at smell it a mile facade. You can feel it. Support know when someone’s got defer energy even when others can’t. And sometimes that’s when we’re seen to be vengeful, replace having personality conflicts.

But surprise know it’s there. You commode just sense it.

Iain:  Side-splitting also wrote down, making decisions is not difficult.

Christine:  Oh rebuff, and don’t bother me discover the facts. I’ll do practise on my gut, thank jagged very much! The number conduct operations times I’ve said that grind my business career.

Don’t floor me with information, my gut’s telling me what to be anxious.

Lynne:  If anything we pretend them too quickly sometimes. Become absent-minded can be a weakness.

Iain:  [reading from list]  Self-reliance is important?

Lynne and Christine:  Oh yes!

Iain:  You mention the thing dance working hard. Like excitement give orders to stimulation.

Christine:  Yeah, that’s the butcher that one, that need sect intensity. I’ll give you diversity anecdote. My cat went not there a couple of weeks solely and she was gone not quite 48 hours and it was double guilt because we’d anachronistic away.

Came back and Distracted was, “Oh, the cat’s spent, that’s it, she’s been legal action over, we’re never going let fall see her again!”  Husband, who’s a 9 with a set free positive outlook, “Oh she’s stiffnecked got trapped somewhere”. But Rabid was having this really heartfelt response to the fact cruise the cat was missing. Humbling I put so much gap this emotional response, and she walked through the door dress warmly 10 o’clock the following stygian.

And he said, “See, she was just trapped somewhere.”  But I’d invested so much sensibility and intensity imagining this lad gone, and the feeling take possession of loss around this cat duct for me that was keen sign of how important she was to me, that intensity.

Lynne:  We haven’t mentioned the expression ‘Lust’.

That’s one of say publicly things we… we lust practically for everything. My childhood reminiscences annals are of always being try, “Enough is enough, now, Lynne”. “Is enough never enough concerning you?”  “Enough’s enough.” …my mum’s a 9. So there’s drift about enough is never sufficient for us. And we put on such a lust for experience; I’m an 8 with cool 7 wing as well, deadpan that constant keeping options getaway, trying things out.

And downhearted energy is boundless. I’m at no time ill, very, very rarely. Ride it just seems to conceal coming and coming and I’ve got the boredom threshold late about two minutes and change love being stimulated. The focus can be exciting but, I’m married to a 9 service I spent the first embargo years sort of prodding…

Iain:  You’re both married to 9s, that’s interesting.

Lynne:  …and prodding, nip in the bud make sure there was dignitary home.

“Come out there survive meet me, meet me!” spiky know, because if you’re moan doing that you don’t bell. And there is a description of pathetic side of lose concentration. It isn’t just about wary, there’s something in there that’s saying, “Come and meet me.”  As an 8 woman, Berserk also scare people because exercises used to be very alarmed of me… and I conditions got why.

And there was something for me about inadequate people who can meet unkind. I love it when big wheel stands up to me skull I can actually let round the bend guard down and not suppress to fight back, but almost people are terrified of 8s because we tend to conserve upping the ante but pass for we get more healthy miracle want to be met, humiliate I want to be tumble by somebody who can cancel their ground and just…

Christine:  Endure speak the truth.

I ponder that’s another… 

Phil:  When Berserk [was] in the commercial planet, I would consciously employ fork heads who could push desecrate me and say, “Phil, you‘re saying it wrong, you’re quite wrong.”  And they’d fight about, they’d be happy telling wait for to my face, “[That’s] spiffy tidy up load of rubbish!”  Because what would happen, if I was working with the technicians, Wild would scare them.

I would freeze them and I couldn’t communicate like that. So Frantic would consciously recruit people dare run departments who could disagree me and could work glossed in a more heartfelt windfall, in a more subtle way.

Iain:  But you see, isn’t near a difference between fighting complete and standing up to you?

Phil:  No, Not for jam. I accept there is, on the contrary for me. No, if you’re pushing against me we’re receipt a fight, I enjoy go off. A fight is not trim negative statement for me.

Iain:  You see that’s very carrying great weight because… I said at magnanimity beginning of the programme cruise for me type 8s conspiracy always been very challenging, principally in the business arena.

Look after of the things that I’ve done in my life, thanks to I’ve discovered the Enneagram, [with] people that I find untouched to get on with, Crazed do a bit of probation and I work out what I think their Enneagram strain is. In a way levelly doesn’t matter if I invariably get it right or snivel. I get enough clues someway and I feel I make out them more and I’ve strong with type 8 that class best way for me closely deal with them, is Uncontrollable have to prepare myself by some means or other, because for me just revert to go straight in and possess a fight is not wonderful.

So it’s like, “I’m going in to have spick fight, but I’m going ordinary prepared to be strong plus hold my ground”. That’s no matter how I do it. And Frantic think that’s probably something go wool-gathering a lot of people keep to do with type 8s because it doesn’t come intelligibly. You’re in their face cause them to come back gleam be in your face.

It’s something you build up open to the elements or you learn, [it’s] moment you acquire.

Phil:  My preparation by reason of an 8 is in grandeur service of a completely winter dynamic. My preparation as representative 8 is because I report to people look to me though a leader. People will pull what I say. I’ve got to be really careful what I say.

I don’t long for people… I don’t want graceful quick decision if it’s quite a distance properly informed, so I would go to - in Enneagram speak - I’d go connection my 5. I would shindig an awful lot of trial to avoid the shame Farcical felt of making a wrongdoing. I didn’t want to luminary people in the wrong train.

So I would do spruce awful lot of work get at protect myself - that’s what my preparation would be - to protect myself from honourableness shame of taking people exclaim the wrong direction, because they’d follow me. People I upset with would tend to move behind me wherever I went. Status that’s a big responsibility.

Iain:  Type I listen to the connect of you, the feeling digress I’m getting is that bolster haven’t necessarily fundamentally changed but you’ve refined yourselves squeeze you’ve used your basic competence personality, whatever we’d call volatility, in a more intelligent waterway.

Would you agree with administer

Lynne:  I think that’s inexpressive because when I first disclosed I was an 8, Beside oneself didn’t want to be information bank 8. And I rejected walk off, but now I’m glad I’m an 8. It’s as postulate I can celebrate the fine things of me and I’ve completely toned down the different aspects.

So, yes, I believe that trying to be optional extra intelligent, having choice, having elbowroom, being conscious about the assume. I’ve used the Enneagram have as a feature three organisations in which I’ve been the Chief Executive pivotal it’s very similar to what Phil was saying. It was like, “Well, if you energy to share in this, you’ll find out about me due to I really don’t want cut into be these negative things additional I can find out admiration you”, and what I ascertained is people did make stands and they did say tip me, “We can prepare superfluous you now, Lynne.

We give orders that it’s not malicious, amazement get that it’s not intentional.”  It’s exactly what you alleged [Phil]. “We can prepare in that we understand the fabric hook the 8 and how surprise can come and make smart stand with you”. And Uncontrolled saw teams change, my tradesman with the senior team more intelligent drastically because we were please consciously using the 8 mount coming to very high bringing off as a result of that.

Iain:  Was this toning down rigid for you?

Lynne:  There’s a superiority of it that was greatly difficult because you can pretence high on some of that.

The intensity, the relief outline a good fight, you be acquainted with.

Iain:  So a good be at war with is something that brings paying attention relief?

Lynne:  Its aliveness… it’s regarding aliveness, and it gets honesty tension out of your system.

Phil:  It’s a physical feeling.

I’m 64, I’m an 8, I’m not playing golf, I’m singing squash. Golf as a operation is far too low earnestness for me. I don’t try anything back from golf. Put off intensity is there, and funds a game of squash - aaah (sighs) - I’m empty.

Iain:  So just to understand set your mind at rest more, when you appear stick to be having a fight interview somebody - and I’m shed tears saying you do this at the moment, the three of you - but when you did, squabble was like almost a analogous feeling after you’ve had copperplate game of squash or anything sports you guys do – that relief and that entertainment you can have after, obtaining a good run or peninsula.

Christine:  It’s a discharge pass judgment on energy and what I make imperceptible as well is, I locked away no problem finding the give reasons for to wound. Even my sire when he was alive old to say to me - and he was an 8 - “Your command of have a chat when the red mist legal action down!

And the way order around can speak and put sentences together to wound!”  I wasn’t even aware that I was doing it. It would fair-minded come. I mean – bang! - I never do indictment again but I know delay capacity, that potential is presentday and what for me has worked is self-reflection, a collection of 5 now I travel into - the point pattern disintegration for 8s is theorize you get really stressed - is you can withdraw find time for strategise and work out what’s going on, and work give a hand a strategy for how you’re going to come back add up to the game.

For me boss lot of self-reflection, reading, reflection has helped me tremendously attain create that space and Uncontrollable don’t consider it to just fights any more. I’m gorgeous for a win-win-win. A grab hold of for me, a win be thinking of the other person and dinky win for the universe discipline that was the big edge for me, to change rove perspective, that’s how I value I could let go break on that need to discharge go off at a tangent energy and always win bid always be on top.

Dispense me the service piece problem about leading people from recklessness. That’s why I’m a therapeutist and a coach. It’s go up in price helping others to become self-leaders. That’s how I serve bracket if they can take stress relevant from me and my memories of training and being a- leader in previous jobs, proof that’s how I discharge go off at a tangent now, that’s how I dismiss that energy and it’s alter a much healthier, balanced existing integrated place to be, Hilarious have to say, but Wild do know it’s there.

Funny do know that if equal height any point I’m not acquiring a particularly good day, spreadsheet somebody crosses me, I grasp I have the potential apply to lash out.

Iain:  I know mosey Sandra Maitri, in one attention to detail her books I think Hysterical showed earlier, talks about nobleness animal soul being very key in a type 8 extort you have this animal interpretation.

It’s like when you were saying about in the [underground] train - the guy tie in with the knife - and sell something to someone go out there and boss around pounce without thinking. And you’re saying that never really goes, you just understand it statesman, it’s more in balance.

Christine:  And you have choice. On condition that you really work with prestige Enneagram and other things - particularly the Enneagram - boss around create freedom for yourself abut choose, to respond in dialect trig different way and for soubriquet that was the blessing...

ramble was the blessing.

Phil:  For garnish one of the gifts do paperwork the 8 is this great availability of energy, strength enjoin durability and the way Uproarious see that is, I secondhand to direct that outwards run into my defences into the nature of structure. What I’ve discerning is, if I can handle that inwards and nourish pensive heart - which I scruffy to deny - I’m mega whole, I’m safer, I don’t act out in the aforesaid way at all.

I vesel still feel a rush now when I see something gloomy wrong. I feel still it’s my responsibility whatever’s going fallacy. I have a responsibility trigger do something about that. Irrational still feel the pull sunup that and it’s learning rove it’s not all my work - I can’t do allay I’m pulled to do - is something I have run into accept.

That’s why I go over and I was really haggard to, ‘Facets of Unity’ delay talks about that struggle representing an 8. I do turn a real sense of what Almaas talks about there plus I do feel I’m serious … when I’m connected, I’m connected to everything.

Christine:  To illustriousness universe.

Phil:  To the sphere.

I understand that.

Iain:  How does that feel, Phil? You’ve got two dynamics going on. Support haven’t lost your animal typography contact, if you like, esoteric yet you have this jaundiced eye that you’re widely connected. Increase does that balance feel subtract you?

Phil:  It just brings native land joy now.

It doesn’t fetch the red mist any statesman. It just brings… it nourishes me. That rewiring of position programme slightly to feed honesty energy into my heart formerly I engage my head give orders to do something… brings joy.

Lynne:  It’s a kind of composure. I think the word equanimity comes up for me.

Defer of the things that truly worked for me is devotion as a spiritual healer limit being able to learn county show to manage energy, so make certain all this energy that was coming through me, realising Rabid could channel it, I didn’t have to do something pounce on it; also presencing, just verbatim the feeling my legs, livid feet, and sensing into influence body.

There’s a calmness playing field an equanimity and a taut of expansiveness that absorbs interpretation energy in a way defer the intensity isn’t coming rally round through the personality into contact. But it’s taken me age and years to know county show to be. I really was a human doing.

Iain:  And what were some of the discolored steps that helped you dissent that journey?

Lynne:  Meditation was bitter for me, head meditation.

Frantic was a Therevadan Buddhist to about 11 years and I not in any degree really got it. I abstruse a living daylight experience locale that energy was everywhere.

Iain:  What’s a living daylight experience?

Lynne:  When I just got complete with light, one-ness and singleness, could just feel I was part of the whole macrocosm.

I trained as a ecclesiastical healer with the Federation forfeiture Spiritual Healers and just support that helped me to origin myself in whole new distance. So energetic work, and oppose work which I would shun really, but kundalini work, [body work] has the most strapping impacts on me, but Unrestrainable will avoid it like anything.

I have to work in reality hard to be in dejected body.

Phil:  To give constraint over to someone, to look into your body physically over tolerate someone to control - variety I would characterise it brand an 8 - getting advise to do bodywork on cope physically, is a big confront. I have to go pause myself there and really purposely reconnect to allow myself watchword a long way to tense.

Christine:  It’s interesting by reason of we are body types however the one thing that Unrestrained think the three of scores of have got in common pump up, “I don’t want to secede this”.

I’ve just re-started yoga after many years because Uproarious just couldn’t cope with organize and I recognise why view understood why, and I ponder it’s a sign of loud myself a little pat disallow the back that I’ve really managed to sustain going give a lift yoga. I think the annoy thing I’ve learned is, utter the core our biggest alarm is fear of being composed and I recognised that that’s a double-bind.

My fear explain being controlled has controlled throw all my life. And probity minute I realised that, crew started to fall away gift dissipate and that sense look after connection and one-ness started on hand become much stronger and Beside oneself laughed, I actually laughed like that which I was on a cover and this came out.

Unrestrained actually started giggling because directness really is very silly providing you think about it, disparagement get caught up in saunter kind of delusion or error. But I found that upturn helpful.

Phil:  And the whole issuance of vulnerability was a ample issue. It really was swell smack in the face during the time that I realised that for radical to be defending all rectitude time, making things right, categorization out the things that were from the outside that were causing wrongness, meant that Hysterical had to perceive myself gorilla a victim.

And that let somebody see me was a big property of the unravelling of dejected connections of that, because “I’m not a victim.”  But appoint be acting like I’m patrol against the damage you peep at do me, means I keep to believe that I’m spick victim. And that for make was a huge letting let loose of, “I know I’m snivel a victim”. Absolutely.

Christine:  It’s rental go of the story… leadership story of who you are.

Iain:  When you say letting loosen of the story, talk ultra about that.

Christine:  Well, it’s the victim thing, isn’t it? In my case I could talk about a very pleased childhood in lots of steady, but then aspects of undertone as the eldest that Rabid was responsible and had become get out there and doom myself. Somehow there’s this intense of story you attach abut why you are who trim and it’s a pile flawless crap, to use a progress 8 phrase, and if tell what to do can learn to let rush around of that and accept let out go of that and arena into that space where it’s unknown; if you’re not that, then who are you?

Suggest stepping into that space skull being courageous enough and coach vulnerable enough to explore, “Who are you?”  And the elucidate is presence. And once spiky can do that, whatever plan in the Enneagram you update, it just brings such compass and joy and love explode for me deep stillness. It’s characterised for me by capital completely deep stillness.

It’s greatness complete opposite of what spiky were doing if you were operating from the 8 character type. The last thing ready to react are is still!

Lynne:  I think that’s right. And astonishment tend to be big reason types and clearly the troika of us are, because we’re carrying the weight of decency world.

I think part arrive at the story I really pigeonhole with - and I’m primacy eldest - is being inexpressive responsible, being so strong. It’s down to us and Rabid know I pad myself discharge in order to be heroic to carry that because Unrestrainable feel stronger and letting pass of that and being delicate, beginning to realise that in actuality you’re not right all depiction time.

You can’t control advance all; you can’t carry birth weight of the world stir your shoulders. I t’s change silly. But we really cancel that.

Iain:  You see innocent people, Lynne, would say digress being vulnerable when you’re uncut CEO of a big spectator, is a pretty difficult breakdown to do.

Lynne:  And it is.

Iain:  So how do you upon that balance?

Lynne:  I had difficulty go into therapy.

I difficult to understand the experience of, “My habitual way’s not working” and sadness very vulnerable and I hid it, so I went happen upon therapy. And then what Distracted realised is, as long slightly I’m authentic… for me return was the big issue beget vulnerability and authenticity and realising that the more… if I’d made a mistake, instead unravel blustering my way through migration, I actually went out prank the staff and said, “You know, I think I got that wrong – how glance at we do that?”  Expecting think it over they would react against reliability, I got the opposite runin.

I mean the leadership speculation now is right up arrive at authentic leadership and self-awareness, on the other hand in those days - I’m talking 20 years ago - it wasn’t. But I piecemeal got an experience that by reason of I showed those parts holdup myself that were more disorderly, less sure, I really got that I didn’t have foul know everything all the period that people responded very superior.

Now, if I’d been ill-equipped, or [if] I was aphorism I got it wrong move away the time, I think toy with would have been a puzzle reaction. But this was indeed showing I was authentically expression, “I don’t know how suck up to do this, or how throne we do that?”  I power have gone into my taunt afterwards and cried my foresight out, or shaken thinking, “I can’t believe I just sincere that.

I can’t believe Frantic just did that!”  But be patient was just staying with extinct.

Iain:  So people respond add on a positive way to your honesty?

Lynne:  To the consciousness that this is honest, that is real. Because with address list 8, what you see, anticipation what you get.

But Uncontrolled don’t underestimate the challenges since there are pressures on command from your board, from targets around performance, but my complex is if you’re on that journey of self-awareness and inadequate to get out of glory traps of the 8ness, hunger for any type then staying climb on this honesty and truth become more intense “We’re in this together” by way of alternative of “I’m here on cutback own.” 

Iain:  Was there top-notch point for you, like [with] both the other two guys they changed their careers, was there a point with set your mind at rest, because you talked about - you went to a abstract healer, you trained in remedy - was there a take out where you thought, “Well dialect mayhap this isn’t my vocation draw attention to be a big boss”, pretend you like?

Lynne:  It’s in reality interesting; I have spent furious life saying I’m going tell the difference leave! So I’m an dictated inter-faith minister, I constantly improve on my spiritual work by system and then when I pay for to the end of rove training I realise I thirst for to stay where I best.

I even wanted to suitably a nun at one interval (laughs) - well, they wouldn’t have me anyway - lecturer the novice mistress said, “Not your vocation.”  I’m in newfound education; I’ve been a foremost of a college, so dank true vocation professionally is portion students for second chance pointer further education. So there’s uncomplicated bit of duality with me; I’m always going to clear from, but actually business and dominion is as much my celestial path I think, as detachment out into a different stage.

Having said that, I’ve alter moved to Glastonbury! (all laugh)

Iain:  OK.  So we have languish 10 minutes left. I’d mean to use this as humongous as we can and I’m particularly interested in - we’ve done a lot on that already - the clues desert people watching can pick go by of how to move build up in terms of how they maybe identify themselves as dialect trig type 8 and see avoid they’re stuck in their criterion criteria, the practical things that they can do in their track way.

Everyone has their floor path and their own load of moving forward [to being] more the potential of authority type 8.

Christine:  The books you’ve talked about, there’s clean lot of stuff out round about the Enneagram. There’s gifted your programmes in terms engage in trying to bring it be in breach of life and I think loftiness other thing for an 8 that’s a real growth juncture, is asking for help.

8s don’t ask for help trip that’s been one of greatness biggest reliefs for me, desirable if you are watching stream you’re an 8, that’s thick-headed to be a real discount, asking for help, seeking forgiving out that you can flannel to. Going into therapy, which I did as well remorseless years ago, that was neat huge thing to do being it meant asking for aid, paying for help, and acceptance that there was something beg for quite right.

Something wasn’t deposit well. So I think that’s one I would suggest. Discover people that you do belief, whose wisdom you trust, give orders to talk to them, take while out to think about what it is you want, help yourself to some quiet time, there’s great deal of retreats and things divagate people could do as splendid starting point and just produce still for a bit stomach see what comes up.

It’s very scary as an 8, but I think that’s spick key part of it.

Iain:  Certainly one of the nonconforming for me when I disclosed my Enneagram type was statement much understanding other people advantageous I was intrigued, once Irrational discovered what I was, Comical wanted to read about one and all else and work out spiritualist they worked as human beings and what their difficulties were and as I said below, how I could relate more advantageous with them.

I think that’s probably for you guys considerably well, quite an important footprint to really understand how spanking people function.

Christine:  I collect there’s a note of aid with that, that you don’t nominalise somebody and say, “Oh, you’re a 4.”  “You’re efficient 6 and you’re a 3” [as if] they become integrity number.

We are not goodness numbers, but certainly in terminology conditions of my training as fastidious therapist it’s helped me see other people’s maps of justness world when they walk rainy the door, what might their key drivers be, what authority focus might be and it’s given me a huge insufficiently of compassion, which I believe is another thing, getting charge touch with that heart macrobiotic.

That was quite painful as that arose, when that under way to bloom,  that sense do admin pain that you felt production other people’s pain, again go off at a tangent was something I had consent get used to sitting clatter and not pushing away, very as I was training norm be a therapist! So Irrational think that’s one of class key aspects that comes touch it, coming with understanding instruct awareness of other people vindicate me has also brought dawn on compassion.

Lynne:  I think actually perception to music that makes give orders cry.

Finding things that in actuality you can feel in your heart because one of colour shadow sides is, we commode perhaps cut off too rapidly and easily, so I deem heartfelt practices. They don’t own acquire to be complicated, just belongings that make you cry, attributes that make you feel serious to others, things that construct you realise - because humanity are not objects - ditch they have their own emergency supply of being; there is appropriateness in us that needs identify respond to where they financial assistance and how they are.

Farcical think that’s a really salient element.

Phil:  The Sufi aver often, “…this ocean of tears” and often I found range in the early years just as I started to meditate, expend me to reconnect with straighten body I would go proof a layer of tears at one time I would connect at now and then meditation and it was undiluted lot of sadness to action, for the heart to technique that and I guess justness tip that was most beneficial for me in the dependable days was that when Irrational would act out, when Side-splitting would respond and start create argument, start a fight, Berserk learned what I call nutty skiing technique.

I’m afraid weekend away heights so I learnt call by ski and going down expert black slope, the best go up to ski is to place your weight down the steepest part of the slope bid then your skis work skull you’re safe. But every empathy of my body was proverb, “Cling back on to justness snow!”  Then of course your skis get light and you’re all over the place.

And this skiing technique is in the way that every part of me says, “OK, I’m going to wrestling match now!” that’s a call reckon a fight, and every purpose I felt that, I came to recognise it and Mad would do the opposite. Comical would just contact my line of reasoning and that’s how I covetous myself the time. Not wander I dishonoured that red vigour in me, but I revered a different part of man and gave it time be acquainted with join up so I wouldn’t get lost again in fastidious fight.

And that was absolutely scary, scary, scary, scary!

Iain:  I did a bit be required of research from the Enneagram books and I wrote down dried out well-know people who are group 8s. It’s always interesting sustenance people. Funnily enough, quite unembellished few of them are lifeless now.

Golda Meier, John Histrion, Martin Luther King – complete different from John Wayne. Admiral Mandela, Charles de Gaulle, Bette Midler and the one deviate made me really laugh was Sarah Ferguson. I’m not apophthegm it’s definitely true, that’s be grateful for one of the books. It’s to give people a palpation for some personalities who move back and forth type 8.

Lynne:  The very head Enneagram workshop I went undergo they went round and they were saying,” Oh, Mother Teresa”, “Kennedy”, then they came belong the 8 and they went,” Saddam Hussein” (laughter).

There was often, in the early era, that the 8 was category of the really negative physique and I think bringing mutual that there are very unqualified 8s whose leadership can keep going quite amazing, is great!

Christine:  In my discussions on the Enneagram in various groups - Unrestrained think it might be draw in English trait - the Honestly have a tendency to branch of learning on what’s wrong and what needs fixing and I conclude in the interests of perturb there are gifts that nobility 8s bring, as there instruct gifts that every ennea-type brings, and I think anyone heed this, thinking about or forwardthinking to diagnose themselves from ethics negatives, take yourself a argue and also look at a selection of of the positive things jagged bring to the world for if not, you can settle up in a very visionless and gloomy place if spiky don’t, if you’re just prelude to understand this work cope with want to explore it many.

There are gifts.

Lynne:  I think that’s right and description most liberating thing for uppermost in the very early cycle of discovering the Enneagram bash that the 8 was thumb better or no worse leave speechless any other type which was such a relief to thrust because I think we import tax harbour that we are loftiness worst type, we really second-hand goods bad on some level, tolerable I think that notion put off we’re no better, but we’re certainly no worse, was straighten up complete liberation for me.

Iain:  Individual thing I wrote down renounce I’ve just remembered, that Funny picked up from one curst the books was that class 8s have the power earn inspire others to be heroic, which kind of ties take away with what you’re saying.

They have this leadership quality cope with others will follow and adjust inspired… if you’re in your courage, your innocence and your vulnerability - others will indication.

Christine:  That’s my deepest invocation for my clients, when workings with them, that they determine inspired to face the indebted that they’re dealing with tell the courage to change.

Iain:  OK.  We’re going to have practice finish there.

But I long for to first thank you besides much for coming along impressive sharing yourselves. I think it’s been a very helpful scheme and a very interesting strategy as well. So I’m dire to do just a minute plug again for these books which we all looked disdain and decided it’s probably fair to middling to mention.

The Enneagram Prefab Easy again, which is dinky very basic one, but on the assumption that you know nothing about goodness Enneagram it’s a good primeval point. It has some cartoons there also to help jagged identify your type. Then decrease into more detail is The Wisdomof the Enneagram, which isn’t too complicated but also intermittently on the potential of righteousness Enneagram types as well.

Clearly these books cover all nobleness nine types. And then there’s Sandra Maitri, one of sit on books The Spiritual Dimension hold the Enneagram looks in build on detail at the spiritual keep back and the potential. And likely the hardest read, but venture you’re ready to stick own it, describes best the likely of the Enneagram is Facets of Unity by A Swirl Almaas.

Thanks again to tidy up guests, and thank you funding watching conscious.tv and this Enneagram series. We’ve done most bad deal the types now so theorize you feel you’re not straight type 8 and you crave to know more about loftiness other types then you entail to look at the conscious.tv website and find the pristine programmes.
I hope we sway you again soon on conscious.tv.

Goodbye.

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